WisCon 37 Panels, Part Four

I stopped for coffee at La Brioche, a small French restaurant between the con and the hotel where I was staying.

Loved the cream pitcher!  Oh, yeah, the coffee was good, too.

Final post of panel summaries.  As before, no attribution means I didn't record who said it.

Is Cultural Appropriation a Useful Concept?
Mod Amy Thomson; Nisi Shawl, Jackie Gross, Meg Turville-Heitz, Catherine Crowe
Description:  What does it mean?  Why is it bad?  All humans borrow and imitate.  One of the purposes of art is to expand sympathy, and one of the battle cries of artists is "I'll do it if I damn well want to."  When - and how - is it okay to use material from a culture that is not one's own?  Or maybe that should be rephrased.  When is it wrong, and why?  Let's discuss.

NS:  Question title of panel.  Useful to whom?
Don't take something sacred to a culture and use it, manipulate it to be something it wasn't.
Different cultures have different definitions of property.
CC:  In Ireland and Celtic culture, songs and stories are considered property.  You can't sing a song unless you come from that place because the song belongs to that space.
Appropriation can block growth in the original culture.
Context is very important.
Someone mentioned "loosed the weasels of enlightenment."  Might have been NS.  Or maybe JG.
NS:  Culture is like a suitcase.  Keep unpacking.  It's a big suitcase with lots of little bags.
Important to deal with the anger of the culture that's been ripped off.
Audience member said she sees cultural appropriation as a violent act - the oppressor taking from the oppressed and marginalizing them.
AT:  Mongolian goat slaughtering is very formalized.  A Mongol author said everyone who writes about them seems to include goat slaughtering; if you're going to do that, at least get it right!
NS:  Acknowledge, be accurate, and give something back.  Don't be arrogant.
JG:  Has issues with "getting it right."  Right for whom?  Would replace this phrase with Being Honest as possible and doing it respectfully.
MTH:  Do lots of research and seek out native sources where possible, not interpretive sources.
NS:  has term Hard History = what actually happened, not the interpretation written by the winners.
Is it okay to fail if you're willing to listen?  Consensus was yes.
JG:  We are constantly working toward being whole.  We will fail, but still move forward.
Important to be honest about the process and what you feel like you're doing.
Audience member addressed why folks get angry:  the anger comes from being an invaded people.  Native American population has gone from 100% of this country to 1/17 of 1%.  There were about 1000 tribal entities; some were wiped out completely.  We lost everything, then you're taking our religions, cultures, languages.  Why wouldn't we be angry?
JG:  brought up cultural etiquette
MTH:  Use of stereotypes, grabbing bits and pieces and melding them unnaturally not good.  Kids learning to write use stock characters in this way; need to be corrected.
Melting pot now taught as Salad Bowl - different ways of teaching multiculturalism.
Works mentioned:
Writing the Other by Nisi Shawl
"Appropriate Culture Appropriation" essay by Nis Shawl



Fight Scenes for Women in Spec Fic
Mod S N Arly; Gary Kloster, Mary Robinette Kowal, Marguerite Reed, Madeleine E Robins
Description:  Fight scenes are an almost essential element in SF/F (both in film and print media); they have the potential to bring a lot to a story.  Both adult and YA spec fic include strong female characters who fight, some as a means of survival and some as a way of life.  Do/can women fight the same as men?  Given the biological differences in size and strength, how can we be true to the real experience; what excuses can we use to negate these (and which excuses have we seen too often)?  How do we avoid making these heroes unrealistic (and essentially men dressed as women)?  Who does this well?

SNA:  Real vs fictional combat?
MER:  In real, you have no idea who will win.
MRK:  Fights cleaner and have a function in fiction.  Real is messy.
GK:  In real, adrenaline takes over and folks forget how to fight and fall over.
Audience member:  In movies and plays, the fight scenes are at 1/2 to 1/4 speed so you can see what's happening.
MER:  You get tired, sweaty, and all that's left is wily.  Fight scenes good for character revelations.  In fiction, special powers can negate physical differences, eg Buffy as the chosen one.
Seeing the training better than having a magical ability.  Justifies the skill set.  Lots of drills.
MR:  But as a feminist, why do we need to justify her skills where we wouldn't for a man?
MRK:  The time frame is important, along with the cultural setting.
GK:  Remember there are slight men and big, strong women.
MRK:  There are mechanical differences in how men and women do things.
Concussions last for weeks!  Berserker state is real; called rhino hide while fighting.  A few days later there's a map on your body of the fight and muscles are majorly protesting.
Sometimes blocking becomes the focus and you forget to hit back, especially novices.
Overcoming "but I'm a girl; I don't hit people" can be part of the journey for some characters.
Mental is a big part of fighting.
Men often fight for revenge; women to protect and defend.
Studies in America have shown that a man picks up a gun to intimidate, a woman picks up a gun to kill you.
MR:  Woman fighting woman is confrontation, both thinking of options.  Woman fighting man is beat down with rape a possibility.
Male violence has a lot of posturing involved and this can even settle things.  Women are more likely to come to blows because we don't have that posturing language.
How does what you're wearing affect your fighting?  Corsets?  Does your shirt rip when you raise your arms?  1800's had wide doorways so hoop skirts would fit through them.  Effects of age and childbirth.  What training is available in that time / world?
MRK:  You can put an ungodly amount of stuff in a nun's habit.
Use the location: things to throw, the mud, the ice, the chicken!
World building:  are there taboos?  fighting as mom for example.
FBI statistics:  In a shoot out, 30 to 40 shots fired with no one hit is the norm.  But those bullets all have to go somewhere ...
Block out fight scene and make sure it's physically possible.  Establish geography before the fight happens.
Old Jackie Chan movies are good; Hollywood Jackie Chan sucks.


The Rules of Magic
Mod Mary Robinette Kowal; David Emerson, Beth Friedman, Alex Gurevich, Jo Walton (WisCon Guest of Honor)
Description:  We all know that science has rules; in fact, much of the work that scientists do involves figuring out what the rules are.  But how about magic?  Is it just a complete free-for-all, where anything goes, where anything you can possibly imagine is doable in your fictional world?  Or is there something to be gained by having magic follow its own logic, where there are limits, boundaries, certain things that just can't be done no matter how hard you wish?  And, if that's the case, how does magic differ at all from science?  Does it even matter if it doesn't?  What's the proper role for tools and prosthetics in magical technology?

JW:  likes magic to be numinous.  Historically, magical belief was a fumbling toward science.
DE:  If magic conforms to physics, it is physics.
AG:  Is it replicable?  Reliable?  Possibly an alternate science rather than magic.
DE:  Potterverse:  teachable; say this, wave like that.  Variation in response due to practice?  Like how everyone learns math at a different speed.
MRK:  N K Jemisin has said on her blog there should be no rules for magic.  (link to Jemisin's post)
JW:  I always know how the magic works in my worlds although I never explicitly explain; characters understand how to make things happen but not how it works.
Levels:  rules characters know / readers know / writer knows.  In Tolkien, we're never told how the ring works.
In Like Water for Chocolate, there's emotional logic.
DE:  Manners vs etiquette.  Similar to classical music vs rock and jazz.
How does magic effect society?  This is where rules are important.  Is everyone magical or just a few?  How do individual people react to the magic?  Class structure - lots of works have wizards as master craftsmen.
DE:  Harry Potter failing in world building - why would wizards not know about the muggle world?
JW:  Lots of fantasy hidden in the modern world seems stupid.
Question:  How would magic affect how people think?  What kind of person is attracted to magic (way of thinking, like kind of people attracted to engineering or writing)?
JW:  Would love to read a book where people are researching magic and pushing its boundaries.
BF:  With a Journal of Emerging Thaumaturgy.
Works mentioned:
The Black Prism by Brent Weeks
Night Watch by Sergei Lukyanenko
The Dubious Hills by Pamela Dean
The Magicians by Lev Grossman
The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern
Midnight Riot by Ben Aaronovitch
Like Water for Chocolate by Laura Esquivel
Shades of Milk and Honey by Mary Robinette Kowal
Melissa Scott's work
C S Friedman's work
Mistborn series by Brandon Sanderson


And that was it.  Next was the Sign Out, where I got books signed by Jo Walton, Mary Robinette Kowal, Madeleine Robins and Amy Thomson.

It will take a long time to incorporate all the great advice and good ideas I heard at these panels.  Hopefully the process will be completed before next year's WisCon.  ;-)