The day I arrived in Madison, I took a wrong turn on the way to my hotel. It was serendipity.
Old tractors are not abandoned in Wisconsin - they become lawn ornaments! This one was in front of a garden center surrounded by color coordinated tulips.
More panel summaries. As before, no attribution means I either didn't write down who said it or it's a summary type statement.
Intimate vs Remote Gods
Mod: Heidi Waterhouse; Rose Hayes, Janice Mynchenberg, Judy Peterson, LaShawn M Wanak
Description: Is it faith if you run into the god in question while doing your grocery shopping? What is the nature of a god whose existence you don't have to take on faith? What does believing in an unseen god signify? Panelists will discuss examples from recent and older literature, including N.K. Jemisin, Mary Doria Russell, Phillip Pullman, and Lois McMaster Bujold.
HW: Examples of intimate gods include those in Jemisin's Hundred Thousand Kingdoms, Thor and Loki in the Avengers canon.
RH: In Sand Kings, the human protag focuses on practice rather than faith; what does it mean if the god changes his mind? Also, Seanan McGuire's Aislin mice; everything protag does is immediately passed into ceremonies.
LSW: Leah Bobet "Parable of the Shower" story where angel tells woman she's going to have the child of god and the woman says, "Hell, no!"
JM: Even a god you can't see can feel intimate. Her definition is if the religion is close and important for the story it's intimate; if it's part of the background it's remote.
Discussion of faith vs religion
RH: Religion can be emphasis on practice that is life enhancing and sometimes larger than self with no obligation for divine worship
LSW: With intimate, can be questionable as to whether the communication is truly from god.
Even when the god's in front of you, there's a decision about is this my god and choice about faith.
In Saladin Ahmed's Throne of the Crescent Moon, two main characters have different ways of following their religion, strong vs lax. Magic comes from invoking the god's name but it's unclear if magic is from god or from the faith the characters hold.
Ambiguous is good.
In Martin's Game of Thrones, the gods are more window dressing; not much detail of what they want, etc. No theology. RH said sense the gods are currently remote but in the past they may have been closer.
HW: What about dead gods?
Digger, the online comic by Ursula Vernon has a dead god. Also Sheri Tepper's Raising the Stone.
HW: Theodocy: if god is good why do bad things happen?
RH: The Sparrow - horrible things happen to the faithful; a study in many ways faith is tested and how faith can close your eyes to the set of facts you're seeing
LSW: King's The Stand - suffering for a just and noble purpose
Does having some kind of faith help flesh out characters? Does it make a piece stronger?
Lacking faith doesn't equal flat character, but having faith helps.
Someone mentioned that in the Bujold series, Cordelia is the only believer.
JM: Faith can tell you who the character ultimately trusts
RH: So far talked of books where religion is explicit. Others deal with concepts, eg Coldfire trilogy
Would be good to see gods that aren't Christian.
JP: We're more comfortable with gods that are familiar to us; couldn't remember name of story where Set was coming back.
RH: More non-western depictions. Pantheons are western taxonomic approach. More intimate gods without theology layered on top. A single god that's not in line with Christian views.
HW: "What if god is one of us, on the bus?" - line from a song. God of the internet? What does the Cyber God look like?
Someone mentioned there is one in American Gods.
Early SF rarely mentions religion. If you put too much religion in a story do you risk alienating some readers or being pigeonholed as a Christian writer?
Works mentioned:
Wheel of the Intimate by Martha Wells
Of Blood and Honey by Stina Leicht
Cordelia's Honor by Lois McMaster Bujold
American Gods by Neil Gaiman
The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by N K Jemisin
Discount Armageddon by Seanan McGuire
"Parable of the Shower" by Leah Bobet
Throne of the Crescent Moon by Saladin Ahmed
The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell
The Stand by Steven King
books by Tamara Pierce
Dark Faith, Jerry Gordon and Maurice Broaddus, eds
Dark Faith: Invocations, Jerry Gordon and Maurice Broaddus, eds
Digger online comic by Ursula Vernon [First Digger episode]
Gendered Communication Styles in the Workplace
Mod: Liz Argall; Naomi Mercer, Andrea L Staum, Talks-with-wind
Description: Interpersonal communication styles are influenced by the cultural experience of gender, but add in office power dynamics and things get ... interesting. Men finding themselves in a woman-dominated workplace may find how things work to be alien. Women entering a workplace that values a robust debate of ideas may find it intimidating. Unlike your social life, you have to work with these people, and that means finding out how to talk to them constructively.
[NM is Lt Col in the army; AS is a motorcycle technician; TWW is in IT]
LA had first job at a feminist non-profit, then moved to a government job (England?) for a big official. There was "revolution in the butler's pantry."
Communicating effectively is important.
AS: Spoke of not being "life ready" for the male dominated motorcycle world with its inherent misogyny when she first arrived.
NM: Joined ROTC for the scholarship money, expected 4 years and out. "They kept giving me things I wanted." Looking feminine and acting masculine got a lot of push back from older men.
Female drama manifests in different ways than male drama. Everyone agreed male drama exists.
NM had to have "remedial conversations" with some male officers.
Audience person who's a lawyer: Get the reputation of someone willing to make noise; learn how to use the privileges for good.
TWW: first job all women in office; he had to learn not to be the young, gung-ho guy. Next job was all men and he floundered for a while learning the communication style.
Discussion of specific issues raised by audience members.
Discworld and Gender Issues
Mod Kate Nepveu; Bronwyn Bjorkman, Rhea Ewing, E Cabell Hankinson Gathman, Jenny Nilsson
Description: In 39 books to date, Terry Pratchett's Discworld series does a lot of good things with gender themes and some less than good things. Let's talk about the wide range of female characters in Discworld, their different kinds of agency, the number of stories that center on female relationships, and the problematic of strains of gender essentialism and heteronormativity, especially in Discworld;s non-human species.
[Moderator had negative views and kept pushing them. Only panel I attended where moderator was so intrusive in the conversations. Didn't allow time for audience input. Also, if you haven't read most of the Discworld books much of this won't make sense.]
Everyone on the panel loves the Witches.
KN: Lack of any queer discourse is a big hole. Monstrous Regiment has characters that might be interpreted that way, but hard to tell if they would claim that identity.
Lots of discussion of the characters in Monstrous Regiment.
Some felt species used as a metaphor for race. Not all agreed. [I see it more as nationalities/ cultures.]
Sam / Sybil relationship with hen-pecked husband theme and women as civilizers (Sybil as "angel of the house") presented negatively by moderator. [No one called her on this; Sam isn't hen-pecked, he's cared for. When he's called out at night, Sybil sends him off with bundle up well and kick arse, dear.]
Discussion of embodiment and what it does to you, eg putting apron on non-gendered golum has effect of feminization and "she" becomes Gladys. Idea that belief defines reality.
Auditors have no natural gender.
Witches power not dependent on celibacy (Nanny!); more individuality for witches in how they use their power than for wizards. Witches get to choose their role in the community.
Moderator felt there's an uneasy relationship with fat people. Pointed out that Agnes, in Maskerade, is only character that loses so much. Someone mentioned Nanny briefly here, but no mention of the wizards in the context of fat folks.
Angua stronger on her own than with Carrot; some said she seems like a real person who wandered into the Discworld. [Angua's a werewolf!]
Discworld has no women in political power who present as female. The dwarf king in Uberwald is female, but isn't "out." Susan being a duchess isn't discussed much in the books, and she certainly isn't working in that role, but as a nanny or school teacher. Some said it feels like TP is trying to pair Susan off but she's resisting him.
[There was little time for comments from the audience. No mention at all that Mr Pratchett's daughter will be taking over writing the Discworld series and what changes that could mean for all these issues.]
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